When I hear the phrase 'Christian values', I can make a reasonably good guess that whatever is under discussion is a bad idea.
By
Tom Morris
on May 22, 2007
Why? Because if it's a good idea, Christian values are rarely brought up. So, for instance, giving a diseased person medicine can be justified on the basis that it will reduce their suffering and make them feel better (and make the charity-giver feel better too). If it's a bad idea, then less good reasons and more bad reasons (ie. "Jesus would have wanted it that way") tend to dominate the discussion.
This is not to say that good things can have Christian or religious justifications, but that the appeal to religious justifications is secondary to the moral justification.
Good values people tend to use instead? Freedom, human rights, civil liberties, autonomy, justice, openness, rationality.
Cases in point: abortion, gay marriage, pornography and a whole host of other inter-personal/sexuality-based moral issues.
Agreed
This claim was inspired by
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Discussion (13)
The way of the Good Christian would be to simply state the value (or live the value) without having to wrap it in Christian packaging. Being a Good Christian would be like being cool. You should never have to say you're Christian talk about being Christian. Your actions would speak for you.
Agreed. Some people wear their religion like a badge and seem to think that going to church on a Sunday makes them a good person. I'm more interested in what they did during the week.
Jesus asked the question,Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
The author of Ecclesiastes writes, For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Robert Coles writes in The Chronicle of Higher Education,
The Disparity Between Intellect and Character
"Institutions originally founded to teach their students how to become good and decent, as well as broadly and deeply literate, may abandon the first mission to concentrate on a driven, narrow book learning -- a course of study in no way intent on making a connection between ideas and theories on one hand and, on the other, our lives as we actually live them."
"I've been taking all these philosophy courses, and we talk about what's true, what's important, what's good. Well, how do you teach people to be good? What's the point of knowing good, if you don't keep trying to become a good person?"
Dallas Willard asks the question, Can people be educated to become good persons and to do the right thing?
That's very interesting Jim, but I fail to see how it addresses this claims contention that the label 'Christian values' is used to justify laws that have no other justification.
Certainly you agree that Christian values are worth following regardless of the existence of God, right?
Therefore, doesn't it follow that people relying on the phrase 'Christian values' are not promoting honest Christian values?
Indeed, what he said. :)
All things being equal, would you prefer being treated by a doctor who believes in the sanctity of human life, or one that believes that life is absurd?
What percentage of diseases treated by doctors are the result of self induction?
How does that percentage compare with fifty years ago?
Do you believe the costs of healthcare would go up or down if a greater percentage of the population practiced "Christian Values?"
Dr. John Patrick, in this interview discusses schizophrenic Christians (weekly behavior does not match Sunday attendance). He also discusses how "Christian Values" impact medical practice.
Jim, you said:
"All things being equal, would you prefer being treated by a doctor who believes in the sanctity of human life, or one that believes that life is absurd?"
Well, yes Jim. Exactly. That's the point. That isn't just a "Christian Value", that's a damn good idea. It has plenty of it's own merits to stand on.
w/r/t cost of healthcare. Up. Obviously. No condoms, more children, venereal disease.
“We must be convinced that there are no such things as “Christian principles.” There is the person of Christ, who is the principle of everything. But if we wish to be faithful to him, we cannot dream of reducing Christianity to a certain number of principles (though this is often done), the consequences of which can be logically deduced. This tendency to transform the work of the living God into a philosophical system is the constant temptation of theologians….”
Jacques Ellul, The Prescence of the Kingdom. 2nd Edition. p. 40.
Ah, that makes considerably more sense. Thank you kindly for your input, Jim. Sorry I was running a bit slow there.
You are correct that the concept of "Christian principles" is flawed from the get go.
thus, whne people bring them up as justification, the point they'r emaking is likely weak. that's why they feel the need to paint it gold.
by Iain T.Benson
"The hopeful person at a school board meeting who thinks he or she is communicating something true when they speak of "Christian values" is mistaken....
The writers of the classical period had various lists of virtues and divided them in different ways. Aristotle, for example, divided all the virtues into those that were moral (having to do with character) and those that were intellectual (having to do with the mind). Though others mentioned these virtues as important, it was a Christian thinker, Thomas Aquinas, who grouped four key virtues together as the cardinal virtues: justice, wisdom (prudence), courage (fortitude), and moderation (temperance or self-control). The term cardinal comes from the Latin word cardo (a hinge) because all the other virtues pivoted on these four. Wisdom was called the "charioteer of the virtues" because it guided all the other virtues."
Values, Virtues, and John Paul II by Thomas D. Williams
1997 First Things 72 (April 1997): 29-32.
"The promotion of 'values' to combat pervading moral relativism would thus propagate the problem its users seek to destroy...
there are two possible paths to take in our approach to values: either to abandon discourse on values in favor of more traditional ethical language, or to assert the objective foundation of values and hence a system by which they can be compared, evaluated, and judged. The consensus seems to favor the abolition of 'values.'"
I'm sure this depends very much on where you live. In my rather unreligious surroundings, the claim isn't true.